What? She’s talking about Blackbaud?
Yes, it might be surprising, but I got a friendly email from fellow NTEN Board Member Steve McLaughlin, who also happens to be head of all things internet (more formally, Director, Internet Solutions) at Blackbaud. He gave me a demo and overview of their NetCommunity tool, which has been around for a while, and I figured it deserved a blog entry. It is, in fact, a great example of integration of a CMS and a CRM. Originally, I wasn’t going to cover the one vendor solutions, like this because, I believed (and, honestly, I still do) that you’re not going to get as powerful a CMS as you can as the best-in-breed CMS tools. However, it is true that Raiser’s Edge, the CRM/DMS tool that this integrates with, is inarguably one of the most important tools out there. Some call it the gold-standard. For many other CRM/DMS vendors, it’s the red spot at the center of the dartboard in their office.
The demo was pretty cool. But you know me, I fall for shiny, especially when it comes to data. The integration between the web front end and the RE back end is bi-directional and sweet. There were a lot of things you could do, including accept donations, track personal donation pages, and the like. and a lot of different ways to track what your donors and constituents did, both online and off, and have those show up in really interesting ways. It is, in many ways, the kind of CRM/CMS integration that lots of organizations want and need. Organizations can get this package in three different ways: On premises – installed inside the firewall, hosted, or SaaS. Their SaaS offering is called “NC Grow”, which provides sets of fairly simple CMS templates to start with, designed for organizations that, in their words, “are ready to reap the benefits of richer online marketing and communications, but may not have the resources or expertise in place to make such a website come to life”
The big kicker, pretty much as always with Blackbaud, is the price tag. There is a $10K license fee that you have to pay if you use the On premise or hosted versions. Expect a $35-45K price tag for development and integration. Their SaaS offering, NC Grow has a $20K/year price tag. This all is, of course, above and beyond the megabucks you’re already paying for Rasier’s Edge.
I didn’t get a very close look at the CMS (I’m wishing in retrospect that I had), but the little bit I did see of it suggested to me that it was somewhat more limited than CMS systems such as Drupal or Plone. Even if, perchance, it’s not, you still don’t get the vibrant community of developers making cool modules and add-ons to do just about anything you can imagine – you’ll have to either wait for Blackbaud to do it, or, perhaps (I’m not even sure if this is possible, but correct me if I’m wrong in comments) have someone custom develop special custom features for you. And, you’ll have an automatic $10K price tag tacked on that you won’t pay with the open source tools. I have a hard time believing that that translates to $10K worth of feature value (one could argue it’s $10K worth of integration value, though, but I’m not sure about that.)
Bottom line: If you are an organization which has Raiser’s Edge, and is committed to keeping it, and you want to do sophisticated integration between it and a web front end, then NetCommunity is probably your best solution. But before you jump in, make sure that the CMS is going to have the sophistication and power you need. And know that because RE doesn’t have open APIs, you are unlikely to be able to create the kind of sophisticated integrations with a different CMS that NetCommunity provides with RE.
But, if you are not a RE user, or are considering migrating off of RE, I don’t think that the combination of RE and NC is especially cost-effective. You can get this level of integration with Drupal/CiviCRM for sure, and likely Plone/Salesforce, and Drupal/Salesforce (with a bit more work.) More on those later.
{ 18 comments… read them below or add one }
I am really pleased that you reviewed NetCommunity and surprisingly, given for your previous opinions of for-profit, non-open source software, a fair review. I would tend to agree with almost everything you said (which in itself suprised me!). It is expensive and many an organisation currently using Raiser’s Edge has deliberated over whether or not to pay for NetCommunity or to go with a custom integration between The Raiser’s Edge and another CMS application. There may be a lot of work building a custom link between The Raiser’s Edge and a non-Blackbaud solution but it can be equally affective since it is designed specifically for your organisation’s needs and quite possibly cheaper.
David
We are currently using both The Raiser’s Edge and NetCommunity. The reason we went with NetCommunity instead of a home-grown solution or 3rd party CMS was the native integration with The Raiser’s Edge and the API.
NetCommunity’s API does allow you the to develop your own custom applications when the base offering doesn’t meet you specific needs. This option has been available for several years and we have made extensive use of it. I think our custom part, as they are called in NetCommunity, count is up to well over 20. Everything from Online Giving and Membership applications to Google Map Mashups.
There is a growing developer community springing up around NetCommunity. Blackbaud released Labs last year and there is plenty of completely free code samples that any developer can use and tweak. I also have free code samples on my own blog that other developers can download.
Good review. I enjoyed reading it even if I have some differing opinions on the topic.
Both David and Garrett are active contributors to the Blackbaud User Society. We are in fits and starts investigating ways to create a really robust ecosystem of 3rd party developers for Blackbaud products. The site would act as a hub of information then redirect people to develoeprs like Garrett and David.
Once more Infinity platform products start shipping the development environment will change with the new tools Blackbaud is making available. It’s a very exciting time right now.
We recently left NetCommunity and RE and moved to Convio’s CMS system. We found that you need to take all the prices Michelle gives you and double them if you want this to work well. It demoed perfectly for us too. We’ll be moving to a new database as well, as everytime we wanted to bring any data from anything other than a blackbaud product it’s $10K. $10 for an API, $10 for a consultant. Integration with mobile technology, Facebook, etc., is difficult. You have to do it the way they want you to do it or not at all. You’re locked in to an expensive inflexible system. And did we mention all the training costs? You train someone then they leave and you are unable to use the system until you hire. If you want Blackbaud to help, pony up more money.
After 20 years of fundraising and being an ED, it’s nice to see other options like Convio, MPower, and the opensource options that Michelle espouses. Don’t be taken by shiny demos. Sorry to be so negative but it was not a fun relationship. As questions and don’t just fall in love with the demo.
Has Blackbaud changed the warranty on RE? Two years ago we did not want to pay their high consulting fees, so we hired a developer firm/agency. We found out later that doing that voided our warranty.
I think for me, although price is definitely a problem, the lock-in issue is worse, and, in some regards, the reason I say that using NetCommunity if you are committed to RE is probably the most cost-effective. Getting your data out in any way to use with a third party system is going to be difficult, and costly, as @Michael said.
I think that if someone is looking to find a solid, cost effective, powerful CMS/CRM integration, and RE is not in the picture, there isn’t much of a reason to adopt RE/NetCommunity – a number of systems (like Drupal/CiviCRM or Plone/Salesforce) will do quite well, and you’ll be freer to do other kinds of integrations (like Facebook, etc.) And, you’ll get a much more powerful CMS to boot.
@Paul, really? Hiring a development firm voids the software warrantee? You’ve got to be kidding me. One of the reasons that Salesforce.com is so successful is because they actively cultivate a rich ecosystem of integrators and developers (which is also true of open source tools.) And this means that nonprofits can be sure of getting developer help for a product from more than just one source. That is becoming, more and more, the best avenue of success for a software product. I mean, even Microsoft does it!
Anyone know if that’s still true?
Yes, they voided the warranty. I do see that they have changed the disclaimer on the website. But it still could be in the contract. I did not read ours as closely as I should have. But ,as you can see below, they are far from embrassing the open community that you have with salesforce, the open source providers and others.
“Blackbaud does not train, certify, authorize, or endorse any third party organizations to perform consulting, implementation or training services on Blackbaud products. Use of third parties to perform consulting, implementation, and training services on Blackbaud products may jeopardize the quality of the client’s implementation or training and the ultimate effectiveness of the Blackbaud software.
Clients that utilize third parties to perform consulting, implementation, and training services on Blackbaud products do so at their own risk. Any claims by third parties to be certified in the implementation or training on Blackbaud products are fraudulent, as Blackbaud sponsored certification programs for these products do not exist. “
I work at a small nonprofit that currently uses Raiser’s Edge and NetSolutions. We are in the process of investigating a Web redesign and an upgrade to NetCommunity, but I’m not convinced it’s the best solution for us. It’s very expensive (which wasn’t a surprise), and I wasn’t sold with their demo/ROI data. We’re definitely in need of a redesign, and we want to better integrate more of our social networking, but I’m not sure what’s best for my organization. I’m wondering if having a redesign, better integrating outside social networking functions and sticking with NetSolutions would give us the best bang for the buck… Any thoughts or suggestions?
Hi Kelli,
Are you completely committed to Raiser’s Edge? If so, unless you want to spend a fair bit of $ on their APIs to do robust integration with a CMS that isn’t theirs, your best bet is, actually, NetCommunity. That said, there are some very good alternatives to Raiser’s Edge, ones that will cost you less over the long term, and give you a lot less lock-in and ability to more easily integrate your CMS, and data that comes from Web 2.0 things like social networks. Leaving Raiser’s Edge behind is turning out to be something a lot of organizations are thinking of doing these days.
I’d suggest giving CiviCRM and Salesforce (or, also Convio Common Ground, based on Salesforce) a look. They CiviCRM has solid integration with Drupal and Joomla, and Salesforce can be integrated with just about any CMS, with good examples in the Plone, Drupal, and Joomla CMS.
DIA’s Salsa platform is another one to look at. I think the most robust option (most comparable to RE) is Salesforce, though. But you say you’re a small nonprofit – so RE might have been overkill in the first place, and CiviCRM or DIA might fit the bill.
And for the small non-profit that IS stuck with RE? What is the best bet for them? Are there any low(ish) cost options that play well with RE for the website?
Not that I know of. I can’t say a definitive no, since I’m not a RE expert. You might ask on a RE users group to see if anyone knows of any. Because RE is so locked down, it’s just really hard to integrate with in a way that is cost-effective (let alone low cost!)
We are currently revamping our website but more importantly looking for a total solution for CRM/Finance/NEt. We have looked at RE/FE/NC from Blackbaud. pricing is scary but we have been glossed over by the presentations. I am glad i read this post. Any other suggestions. We don’t really want to go over $100K in next 3 years on this project. Seems like Blackbaud will want that and more.
Any other suggestions on direction or providers for a small non-profit emabarking on a magor capital campaign.
Have you chosen your CMS yet? I’d say depending on your needs, you should look at either a Drupal/CiviCRM, Plone/Salesforce, Drupal/Salesforce, or Joomla/Salesforce combination. They can all provide you with nice integration of the kind you’re going to want for a capital campaign, and although I don’t know anything about your organization, I very much doubt any of those options will cost $100K.
The financial piece is harder, but there is lots of solutions integrating Salesforce and Quickbooks, and I know people are working on integrating Drupal/CiviCRM and quickbooks.
You may want to consider a solution like NEON CRM by Z2 Systems. They can integrate their CRM with any web site. You can build your own pages without needing help from support. We built a membership page, a donation page, a newsletter page, and an event listing page that feed into our main database. Their CRM even allows the donors and members to have special access. The fees are A LOT less, and the service is great.
I’m a little late joining the conversation, but as they say, better late than never. Just thought I’d point the readers here to another CMS for nonprofits. Cozality’s Effect Engine CMS for non profit websites comes loaded with features, even Facebook Connect (which alone is worth what you will pay for the whole site, with custom design) without the big ticket. It is significantly more cost effective than Convio, while the technology itself is actually quite competitive. I hear they may even be releasing a CRM soon as well (but don’t quote me on that)! Definitely worth checking out for anyone who doesn’t want to have to choose between REALLY expensive and SUPER expensive solutions, but wants to be among the more socially integrated non profit websites that recruit volunteers and raise money, and so on and so forth…. and of course, the CMS provides for content managment by non-technical personnel.
Hi Michelle,
As a developer with over a decade of experience developing solutions integrated with Blackbaud’s products I thought I might address a few of the items mentioned in your post and in the comments:
“you still don’t get the vibrant community of developers making cool modules and add-ons to do just about anything you can imagine” While smaller than the Force.com developer community, there IS an active community of developers making cool modules for Blackbaud’s software, including individuals like Garrette Keating (above, who blogs frequently about BBNC customizations) and companies like Zeidman Development, PaperSave, Fusion Labs, and O-matic Software (my employer). We should keep in mind though that the numbers of the respective developer communities for the Force.com non-profit sector and for Blackbaud applications are most likely in direct correlation to the ~need~ for these third parties. The Salesforce.com framework was not built with the non-profit sector in mind, necessitating an army of developers to build an array of functionalities that can hopefully be cobbled together by an organization (or, more likely, the external consulting company they must retain) into a patchwork quilt of functions that hopefully is enough to cover the organization’s needs. Blackbaud, on the other hand, built their platform from the ground up specifically for non-profits, so most of the things non-profits need are simply baked into the product.
“(I’m not even sure if this is possible, but correct me if I’m wrong in comments) have someone custom develop special custom features for you. And, you’ll have an automatic $10K price tag tacked on that you won’t pay with the open source tools.” There is no automatic $10K price tacked on to custom features unless you need access to the expanded API, which is rarely the case (and if you did, that API license is actually free to NetCommunity customers). As a matter of fact you can download some free Raiser’s Edge solutions right from our website, no charge (my pick would be the MagicFolder which lets you attach documents to any type of record in the Raiser’s Edge, like constituents, appeals, funds, etc).
Hiring a development firm to do custom work DOES NOT void the warranty. I can only guess that Paul’s organization hired a firm that did not know what they were doing and probably decided it’d be a good idea to write directly to the database rather than using the object model. As long as you follow the correct programming procedure then there are no worries regarding your warranty.
“Because RE is so locked down, it’s just really hard to integrate with in a way that is cost-effective (let alone low cost!)” Actually our company, being a part of that small but vibrant community of Blackbaud third-party app providers, has offered a tool for years that allows organizations to integrate data from websites, online donations, alumni updates, lockboxes, etc into the Raiser’s Edge. We even have a few Convio customers that have opted to dump the Convio connector in favor of this tool, called Import-O-Matic.
If folks are wondering if the Raiser’s Edge is extensible, the answer is an unequivocal “yes” and I hope they will visit our website to see some examples of that.
Thanks for a great blog Michelle!
-Jeff
O-matic Software
Nice reviews and information contained here.
We are looking to work with a Blackbaud integrator who also does application development. If any one can direct us to a qualiy organization we would sure appreciate it,
Thanks,
rye
Interesting conversation. I think a lot of you would save a great deal of time, money and headache by switching to the new NPEngine platform. There are no recurring fees, and the setup costs less than 10% of using Blackbaud or Convio.
Integration with the latest social tools (Facebook, Twitter, Youtube and more) is standard, and there are multiple ways to add custom functionality on your own, including a native API, Google Apps, Spreadsheet synchronization.
The prices charged by Convio and Blackbaud are indefensible given that their products aren’t really that great and aimed at NonProfit organizations. I’m always shocked that so many nonprofit’s fall for their nifty marketing. It’s really too bad since so much cash and effort should really be going towards their primary charitable mission.